interviewed by MARK MILLAR
ROB LIEFELD Let me get this down on paper before you read any further; I really like Rob a lot. There’s just something about the guy that polarises the comic-book community like no other and I find that absolutely fascinating. Over the past fifteen years, I’ve never seen such praise, vitriol and hard-earned cash being fired in the direction of a particular individual and I can’t help feeling that all three are inextricably linked. I liked Rob the second I met him. He’s utterly consumed by what he does and has a genuine passion for everything he touches as a reader or as a creator. Like the other Image founders, he has an opinion on everything and is never dull company. I’ve actually become friends with pretty much all these guys over the last couple years and, although very distinct personality types, they all share the same drive and ambition and genuine pop-star aura that makes me think, like John Lennon or Bill Clinton, they would have risen to the top of their field whatever they decided to do. Big personalities make big friends and big enemies and they also make good copy. Is Rob the new Jack Kirby or the comic-book Anti-Christ? Every kid I know would say the further and, regardless of who I put him up against, will pick a Rob every time as the artist they most admire.
This interview was conducted on the 21st June, 2005.
MM: Describe the ten year old Rob Liefeld. What books was he reading, what kind of home did he come from and what he was he like at school?
RL: Ten-year old Rob Liefeld grew up in a loving, conservative family. My Dad was a Baptist minister, my Mom was the happy homemaker, my older sister was a hellraiser, the troublemaker in my family. I loved comics, watching T.V. and then acting out whatever I saw on T.V. or in comics with my neighborhood friends. In the summer, my friends and I would ride bikes all around the neighborhood and beyond staying out until 9 o’clock. My Dad took me to all sorts of movies, always cautioning me to not tell anyone because people at the Church may judge him for allowing me to see such classics as Logan’s Run, Sinbad, Superman and Star Wars. He hated Sci-Fi, didn’t enjoy it at all and told me he enjoyed “good drama’s”. He just saw how it sparked me, how it excited me and he gave himself over to allow me to enjoy it. He was a little concerned that I would buy into the Force rather than Christianity. Due to the 30 plus screenings of Star Wars I attended, he felt the need to stress to his nine year old boy that The Force was not God, I think he was worried that I would start praying to the Force or something. He probably thought I’d be taken in by Lucas the way Katie has been taken by Tom and Scientology. I was completely bored at school, always eager to get to recess. I drew on every school assignment out of sheer boredom.
MM: When did you first get laid?
RL: When she was ready and willing!
MM: Your first big break was Hawk and Dove for DC Comics. Is it true that your editor thought your layouts were too radical right from the start and forced you to redraw the whole thing in a much more conservative format?
RL: Yes that it completely true. But it didn’t happen until the last issue. I had turned the entire issue in, my editor Mike Carlin who is a good guy, felt I was trying to take advantage of him while he was on vacation for 2 weeks. This couldn’t have been further from the truth, I was just experimenting, turning pages sideways, utilizing other, bolder layouts and having fun. Mike demanded I re-draw the book, I refused because I stood by the work and was proud of it and I had already begun working for Marvel comics drawing some X-Men fill-ins.
MM: Marvel was by far the more traditional publisher at the time and yet they seemed to encourage you to get a little crazy. Why do you think people like you, Jim and Todd blossomed over there instead of the much more radical and experimental DC?
RL: Two reasons. Jim Salicrup and Bob Harras. Jim and Bob encouraged us to break away from the norm, the standard, the status quo. They were happy with the results and their books benefited from enthusiastic creators. I worked with Jim on some Spider Man stuff, annuals and a fill-in that was never completed (script) and Bob gave me the keys to the New Mutants car and let me drive it at breakneck speeds without fear of getting a ticket. Jim learned the basics from Carl Potts who was similar, more conservative in his approach to my experience to Mike Carlin, but his work really broke thru to the next level in the X-office. Our common denominator was Bob Harras, he deserves some serious recognition for his guidance. We would burn each others fax machines up, constantly sending pages back and forth, competing, comparing, pushing each other. The end result was the top selling books in history.
MM: Describe the conversation when you first had or heard the idea of Image Comics.
RL: It was really nothing more than an impulse to break out on my own, to exploit myself on my own terms. Todd thought I was nuts, the entire idea made Jim nervous, Larsen was ready to break, so was Valentino, Marc was swayed by Todd’s aggressive recruitment and Whilce was very close to Jim. Next thing you know, a revolution was born.
MM: Who was your best friend at this point in time?
RL: In comics, that would have to be Todd. We talked numerous times a day and he gave me tremendoes insight to the business aspects of comics. Todd encouraged every artist or writer he met to get more educated about the comic business so that they could better themselves in their business dealings. It didn’t matter who you were or where you were at in your career, he cared about empowering the talent. I got to know his family and our relationship expanded beyond comics, it became more personal for me at least. The most important aspect of our relationship was that I never, ever felt in competition with him even when he would break out way ahead of the pack, his approach to his art and his pages were so unique, I just felt that he had his own track he was running on, separate from ours.
MM: Rumors persist that you personally made 20 million dollars in 1992. What does a young guy in his early 20s do with that kind of money and did it make you a better or a worse person?
RL: Yes, the math is simple. 12 Image comics in the form of 4 Youngbloods, 4 Supreme’s, 4 Brigades, each bringing in one million bucks each. X-Force royalties for the first 12 issues( royalties were sent 12 months after a book shipped in those days) broght in around 4 million and additional licensing contributed another 2 million and the money from the Levi commercial was about a million. After taxes, Uncle Sam left me with around 12 million bucks. I bought 4 houses, opened a studio, bought 4 cars, a jeep, 2 SUV’s and a sportscar and tons of original art. Loaned some money to family and friends and churches and lived a fun life. I don’t believe it changed me much, I was always moving at hyper-speed since my teen years so I didn’t really stop to enjoy it as much as I could. One of my friends and an on and off again collaborator, Marat Mychaels told me recently that he felt I never flaunted myself or seperated myself from the others in the studio. He was being sincere, I appreciated the sentiment because I really tried hard not to be different and to stay grounded. I felt really guilty making so much money which is why I tried to pay others so much in an effort to make other rich young men like myself!
MM: The Image guys suffered from the same backlash all pros suffer from at least once in their careers, but you seem to have been specifically targeted. Do you think it was because you were younger and made more money than the others?
RL: Well when I came to the realization that my own partners were spreading the trash and talking shit about me since Image year one, it really formed a picture for me. I knew that the older set was jealous of us, of me, by older set I mean the previous generations, the John Byrne’s and such. And Jeph Loeb confessed to me that he and his set of pals that shall go nameless were admittedly jealous of us in the early days, the money, the girls, the youth that all the studios collectively brought into the industry, I understood that but I should have realized that the competition was most heated back home in my own company. Several of my partners routinely trashed my books to the fans and media, feeling their output was apparently superior to my own, it’s a shame really. It is what it is. Competition at its ugliest.
I’ve been told by several fans and peers that I was the most visible during that period, much of that has to do with the Levi’s jeans commercial and having my house on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous was probably not the best move in hindsight. I agreed to that at the urging of my young wife who I was eager to please. My favorite thing I’ve heard though is when people tell me my comics sold millions because of the commercial. I just shake my head realizing they’re not aware that the comics shipped prior to the commercial airing. The commercial ran for 2 years non-stop in the states it was on every major network and MTV 24-7. I don’t regret it but it certainly made me a target.
MM: Describe the best and worst things to come out of your Image departure.
RL: The best was the freedom, leaving the politics of five partners behind. The worst was the lies that were spread with the specific purpose being to harm me and cripple my future operations. There were some long, long days but it was great being liberated. And to any and all that buy into the “He was kicked out of Image” mythology, I urge you to do your homework, add up the dates take out those old Diamond Previews and Comic Buyers Guides and check the ads and the solicitations. Any journalist who cares to do his investigative reporting would find evidence to support the facts not the myth. When I moved Supreme and Youngblood, my two Image flagships, to my own company, Maximum Press, the heat was really turned up. I knew I was leaving, now they did too. The owners, specifically Todd, demanded I fold Max Press and put everything into Image. I refused and during a conference call while I was driving to meet Jeph Loeb at his Malibu beach house, who was quietly helping me set up Awesome comics, I hung up in frustration knowing it was over. I told them that if my books were so important to propping up the company than other less productive owners should contribute more than they were. I’m producing 20 books a month for the company while some of the partners had taken a year off, contributing nothing, I was finished. My own catalogue and my employees were more important to me than the Image collective. The Image publisher, Larry Marder had helped me refine a resignation letter dating back to 1995, I had been delaying the inevitable for too long. The seperation was necessary, but I wasn’t allowed to leave on my terms, they needed to trash me. Todd told my attorney, there’s no way he’s walking out of this company unscathed, they were going to formally vote me out after I resigned, and so a year of ugly lies and hate filled my calendar. I credit the intervention of Jeph Loeb with giving me critical, crucial guidance during this time. He told me every day, Todd and the boys are trying to call you out to the street for a fight, they’re trying to rile you up. Just wish them well, just wish them well he said. To this day, I wish them well.
MM: Does it frustrate you when people complain about the anatomy of your characters when you’re not trying to achieve photo-realism?
RL: Not in the least. I can’t worry about the nay-sayers when I have a loyal fan base that has supported me for 17 years.
MM: Does comics feel like a better place now or when you first broke in?
RL: Yes and no. It feels a little more limited than when I broke in, there certainly seems to be a rooftop, a ceiling on the industry that wasn’t there in 87-88. But I’m one of the eternal optomists that believe that comics in a variety of formats have yet to reach their maximum pinnacle of success. A new market explosion is right around the corner and we will all work harder to maintain the levels of success that are ahead of us. The industry is definitely much, much healthier than it was five years ago.
MM: When did you last cry?
RL: Well, I cry a lot. I’m a big crier, I’m a weepy guy. I fought back tears when I took my two boys to see Star Wars ROTS. I couldn’t believe the thrill of seeing the completion of an experience that has enchanted me since I was a boy sitting next to my two young sons. It was sort of a passing of the torch, it signified the end of my own youth while at the same time the dawning of my boys youth was just beginning. Little tears of joy at how great the experience was. In my wildest dreams I never imagined how much fun being a father could be.
But I haven’t wept tears of sorrow greater than the morning I learned of Sam Loeb’s passing. Everyone who knew Jeph or Sam knew that it could happen anytime but it didn’t make it any less heart breaking. Sam was courageous beyond words and mature beyond his years. His Dad loved him so much, they loved each other so much. We will celebrate his life here in the Liefeld house but miss him deeply for the rest of our lives.
MM: What was the last good comic you read?
RL: There are so many. Superman/Batman because Jeph Loeb writes the best summer blockbusters in the business and the Maximums had me laughing and thrilled at the same time. Ed McGuiness is terrfic, Wolverine because you and JR Jr. have crafted the most high octane, adrenaline pumping blockbuster and depicted Wolverine as he should be, relentless. The Walking Dead because it’s just plain scary and keeps me on the edge of my seat, Ultimates because it is the best mature team book on the market, politics, betrayal, abuses of power, it’s all covered in The Ultimates, Teen Titans because its the best, most consistent comic book, teens or otherwise on the market. Johns is a great writer but remains under-rated as far as I’m concerned. House of M surprised me, I was expecting to hate it, mainly because it felt so corporate, but it was fantastic. I loved it.
MM: What was the last good movie you saw?
RL: Batman Begins. Awesome. The character stuff never took a back seat to the action. They should make the next 2 back to back and start filming today.
MM: How does the thirty-something Rob differ from the ten year old Rob we talked about earlier?
RL: I’m much mellower, much more relaxed. So much stuff has been thrown my way, all of it crucial to developing character, I wouldn’t change anything. My amazing family inspires me to be a better person each and every day and I just love life. I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone else anymore. It’s great. I am blessed beyond belief.
Mark Millar was born on December 24th, 1969. Growing up he was into all the same stuff you’re into and so, when the opportunity arose, he dropped out of university towards the end of his degree and became a full-time comic-book writer.